The subject of ‘Catch Me If You Can’ wants to help Boiseans avoid being scammed
As far as redemption stories go, Frank Abagnale’s stands among the more memorable.
Abagnale, 71, was a well-known con artist and fraudster very early in his life who turned into a valuable FBI resource. His story was told in the 2002 Steven Spielberg film “Catch Me If You Can,” which starred Leonardo DiCaprio as Abagnale, Tom Hanks as a federal agent pursuing him and Christopher Walken as Abagnale’s father. It was based on Abagnale’s book of the same title.
From ages 16-21, Abagnale reportedly managed to cash $2.5 million in fraudulent checks. He did so by pretending to be who he wasn’t: an airline pilot, most famously, but also a doctor and a lawyer — going so far as to pass the bar exam in Louisiana, per History Collection.
Upon being caught in France, Abagnale was originally sentenced to 12 years in federal prison; he served just four years before being released on parole on the condition that he would help the FBI catch other con artists. Since then, Abagnale has worked with the FBI for 40 years, the National Advocacy Center and the AARP, which invited Abagnale to Boise to speak at the Riverside Hotel on Wednesday night, where he gave tips on how to avoid being scammed.
He also has his own firm, Abagnale and Associates, which helps businesses avoid fraud. In a most surprising twist of fate, one of his sons became an FBI officer, and Abagnale even taught him at the academy.
In a wide-ranging interview Wednesday afternoon, Abagnale said he has been to Boise five or so times for previous speaking engagements, many with U.S. Bank. He resides in South Carolina and commutes to Washington, D.C., where his firm is headquartered. Here is a partial transcript of the interview with Abagnale, edited in spots for brevity.
What are you going to be speaking about?
About five years ago, AARP sent out a survey, they have 38 million members. So they sent a survey out to them and said, what are your concerns? They would assume they were coming back saying Social Security, Medicare benefits, and they came back and said fraud. ‘I’m concerned about being scammed and I’m concerned about having my identity stolen’
... So they decided to start this fraud watch network to help educate people. ... They came to me and said, ‘We know you’ve written a lot about these scams.’ And they said, ‘We would like you to develop some video training programs, educational materials for us, that we can provide to our 38 million members.’ ... So this is our fifth year, we’ve been to 38 states. And we get typically about 1,000 people or more come.
What are the most common scams you see these days?
The ones that are most common are like the Jamaican scam where you win a sweepstakes, you have to send me money. ... We have the typical grandparents scams. These are the most common, the IRS scam, I’m calling from the IRS.
Every time there’s something new, a scam artist says, ‘How could I benefit from that?’ So when the new Medicare card was coming out, everybody was going to get a new Medicare card ... The government can’t issue all those cards at one time, so they issued by region. So if Idaho had not gotten that card yet, they know that, so they started calling seniors in Idaho saying ... ‘I’m calling you, Mrs. Jones, to ask if you received your new Medicare card.’ No, actually, I haven’t. I know about it, but I haven’t received it. ‘Well have you paid the fee?’ I didn’t know there was a fee. ‘No, it’s $35.’ Oh, no, I didn’t know that. ‘Well, if you give me your credit card number and all that, I’ll make sure that card gets off to you tomorrow.’
What sort of advice are you going to be giving?
... One thing I’ve learned from doing all this is that if you look at every scam, no matter how sophisticated it is, or how amateur it is, there has to be two red flags in order for the scam to actually work. And the red flags are, at some point, I’m going to have to ask you for money. And then, I need it immediately. I’ll say to you, ‘We’ll go down to Walmart, get me a green card ... You have Apple Pay, you have your credit card in your pocket. You got your account number on your check ... It’s got to be right this moment. That’s the one red flag. And the other red flag is at some point I’m going to ask you for information. ‘Well, can you tell me where you bank currently, what’s your Social Security number, what’s your date of birth?’ ... When it comes to identity theft, I tell people to do what I do myself and nothing more: First of all, I shred everything ... I’ve (also) never owned a debit card. I have three sons are all grown, married, have children, they’ve never owned a debit card.
I will remove 99 percent of my risk by simply using a credit card. ... So if someone gets my number tomorrow and charges a million dollars on my card, by federal law, my liability is zero. I have none. ... When you use your debit card, every time you take it out, you’re exposing the money in your account ... Education goes a long way to fighting fraud.
Obviously, your background is well-documented. Do you think any of the stuff that that you did back in the day would be possible now, and how have you seen the schemes change?
First of all, it would be 4,000 times easier to do today because I didn’t have the technology that exists today. The only thing that I did that I would say would be difficult to do today is the airline pilot, simply because when I did it, there were no hijackings. There were no terrorists. There weren’t even police at the airport ... you could go downstairs and walk out to the plane. Nobody’s saying anything to you. That’s changed a lot. But other than that, any of those things could be done a lot easier today ... As I tell people all the time, the scams haven’t changed, really. The criminal mind remains the same. It’s just the method in which they commit the crimes. So once you understand that criminal mind, you have a good way of understanding the crimes they’re committing.
Are you ever surprised that you were able to do it for that long? Were you just that good at it?
People try to say, ‘You’re a genius,’ and all that. I was 16 years old. So I remind people that I was a kid, I was an adolescent, I had no fear being caught. I had no fear of consequences. I didn’t rationalize anything. Anything was doable. So I tell people, I didn’t sit out in front of a bank and say,’ I got a $500 check. I’m going to go in and try to cash it. So here’s my plan. If they say this, then I’ll say this, they do this, I’ll do that.’ I just went in and did it. And everything I did was not premeditated, or it would have never worked.
At what point, while you were helping the FBI, did you realize, “This is what I actually want to do, even when my sentence is over”?
I don’t want to say, ‘I was born again. I was in prison. I saw the light, prison rehabilitated me, I was a changed person.’ I looked at it as an opportunity. ... I was surrounded by incredible people ... I met my wife on an undercover assignment, I had to come clean and tell her, you know, who I really was ... And I asked her to marry me. She did against the wishes of her parents. And, you know, she trusted me, she believed in me. She is an amazing woman with a great deal of character. ... And she really changed my life and brought a child into the world, and that fatherhood and being a father, and understanding the importance of being a father and being a husband and taking care of your family, those are the things that really changed my life.
... I said, Look, I’ll stay, but I don’t want to just work for the government, I won’t spend the rest of my life working for the government. I said, I will stay as long as you want me to stay. But I want to be able to do other things, go out and work on technologies and ideas ... And so we came to an agreement that that’s what I would do. And that’s what I’ve done ever since.
I want to talk about the movie really quick. Did Steven Spielberg approach you and say, ‘Hey, this is a story I want to do?’ Did you consult with him?
He actually bought the rights when he was making ‘Jaws.’ He really loved the book ... Barbara Walters (asked him) ‘Well, why did you wait 20-some odd years to make this movie?’ He said, ‘Because I wanted to see what the real Frank did with his life before I immortalized him on film.’ He was very much into the redemption side of the story. And he really didn’t want to speak to me. He wanted the three FBI agents, who are retired. He wanted their story about chasing me ... As he told told Leo and Hanks, ‘I’m not making a movie about Frank Abagnale today. I’m making a movie about Frank ... when he was a teenage boy.’
He did all his research with kids I went to school with, and people like that ... I only saw the movie twice. And I only met him like a couple of weeks before the release of the movie, and the same way with Leo and Tom Hanks and all that. And that only came about because, at the very end, when he was done with everything, he wanted me to do a cameo in the film. (Abagnale plays a police officer in France.)
You know, I’m not a movie person at alI. I don’t watch a lot of TV ... So when they said Leo, I had no idea who he was ... I said to my wife, ‘Does this guy have a movie out?’ ... So I go see the movie (“Gangs of New York”). And I come back and I say to my wife, ‘OK, this is ridiculous. This guy’s like 28 years old and he has a beard ... Nobody’s gonna believe he’s 16 years old.’
How has your life changed in those 17-ish years?
This is what’s so amazing. Only two things that have changed because, I’ve been doing the same thing I was doing before the movie ... I get paid more money to do it, and people want to take their picture. I mean, you know, I tell people all the time ... I’ve been speaking for 40 years ... I can’t go anywhere now without it being, ‘Could I take a photo with you? Do a selfie with you?’ ... It doesn’t bother me, but I’m just amazed.
What’s the closest you’ve gotten to being scammed yourself? Has it ever been close?
I’ve never been close enough. Someone asked me that. Actually, an assistant U.S. attorney asked me that yesterday. ...
My wife has gotten, you know, scam calls, but she’s gotten very smart about what they are. So I mean, I’ve had the calls and all that. But I think the people really making the calls don’t understand who I am ... The other day, my wife was on the phone and she said this guy called and said he was from a collection agency and that I owed money for an operation. ... And I told the guy, I’ve never even had an operation. i haven’t been to the hospital since I was born.
I know I can be scammed. I mentioned to you I do this podcast. ... Two of my guests that came on were former FBI directors. Both of them have been scammed. I had a guest on who was the editor in chief of Time Magazine. He was with Time for 35 years until he retired. He’d been scammed. So I tell them anybody can be scammed.
You mentioned that you taught your son in the FBI. What was that like? Was that kind of surreal?
Let me show you how amazing story that was. When my son was about 14 ... he said, I’d like to be an FBI agent ... So I just thought he was telling me that ... I kept thinking he changed his mind. He said, you know ... I really want to strive to be an FBI agent ... So I said, son, I want to just tell you ... the FBI takes one in every 10,000 applicants to be an FBI agent. ... You may never get that job. But if I were you, and you were asking me, I would say go to law school, or go get a degree in accounting. ‘But I’m not interested in any of that.’ I said, I know. But that will help you.
... When he got into the Academy, the bureau wrote me a letter, and said, ‘Do you have a problem teaching your son in class?’ I said no. Then they wrote him a letter, ‘Do you have a problem if your father teaches you in class?’ He said no.
... When people say, ‘Out of everything that happened in your life ... what’s truly the most amazing thing?’ ... For years, I’ve sat on the stage and watched (FBI) agents become agents, crossing the stage. And only once in my career (did) I sit in the auditorium, watch my son go across the stage ... It’s just kind of an amazing story ... I don’t think anything else can happen in my life that would top that.
This story was originally published July 25, 2019 at 2:08 PM.